One of the best perks about being a music journalist is the moment you meet an artist you've admired for years and they are as cool and down-to-earth as you'd imagined them to be. Granted, it can go completely the other way and someone whose music you've always loved can turn out to be an arrogant bastard, but fortunately, this was not the case with Aesop Rock or his partner-in-crime Rob Sonic. Billed as Hail Mary Mallon, the New York-bred duo is on tour in support of their sophomore effort, Bestiary, which was released on Rhymesayers Entertainment in November 2014. From album opener, "Jonathan" to closer "The Red List," the album is solid from front to back. Aesop produced ten of the tracks while Rob Sonic produced the remaining three. Their most recent video, "Whales," seemingly mocks mainstream rappers and the 'money' they are supposedly making while a classic boom-bap beat moves the track along. Aesop and Rob Sonic sat down with RAPstation to discuss everything from the making of Bestiary and Garage Band to Kimya Dawson and magic.
RAPstation (Kyle Eustice): I was reading about you a little bit and I like the idea of your tattoos that say, "Must Not Sleep, Must Warn Others." Why did those phrases resonate with you so much that you also include them in a few of your songs?
Aesop: That started in high school. A friend of mine used to say just joking around, I don't even think it's a quote from a movie, but it sounded like a sci-fi robot or something. It was just a joke between some friends of ours. When I started writing songs I adopted it as a mission statement pretty early on. That's what making records for me was at the time: warning others, writing everything I could about life and treating it like...
And not sleeping because you have so much work to do.
Aesop: Precisely. I don't know. I've never had an easy time sleeping ever in my life.
Do you still have problems with it?
Aesop: Yes, I do actually.
Do you drink coffee?
Aesop: I do.
That could be part of it.
Aesop: It could be, but I stopped drinking coffee post 4 p.m.
Me too! I've had to. Rob, tell me a little bit about your history. I've never met you and only interviewed you recently through email, but email interviews are never the same.
Same thing. We came up the same way. New York in the early '90s, underground, we're all connected in that way. I'm just a dude who likes to rap [laughs].
Oh so do you know Blockhead, as well?
Rob Sonic: Yeah, not as well as they know each other. They've been buddies for a long time.
Aesop: Yeah, we're like boyfriend-boyfriend.
[Laughs]
Rob Sonic: I'm the side piece.
Oh you're the third wheel whenever they get together?
Rob Sonic: Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
Aww I'm sorry. Blockhead is one of my favorite producers and to this day, None Shall Pass, is one of my favorite records. Great album.
Aesop: Thank you! I appreciate that.
Ok so I've listened to it at least a thousand times. What about you and Blockhead's aesthetic kind of gelled or coincided?
Aesop: We were friends before either of us started making beats. We got our samplers pretty much the exact same year. He got his a little bit before me. We were fans of taping shit off the radio constantly and we were always going out to show. Tony always wanted to make beats and he had been in scenarios before that where he would pull samples out and have somebody that actually makes beats use the sample so he had a better idea of how it's done than I did. We were hanging out together all the time.
It just made sense.
Aesop: Yeah, we didn't even have anyone to show us how to use the sampler. We just read the directions.
[Laughs] Those things seem like a nightmare to me. I'm still figuring out Garage Band.
Aesop: Garage Band is occasionally a nightmare, as well, though.
It's a little tricky, especially since I just got a new computer.
Aesop: A little wonky?
Rob Sonic: It's definitely a little more pro than when it first started out. I remember when it first started out and it was like, 'Whoa, what is this?'
It was like Fisher-Price.
Rob Sonic: Now it's like..wow.
Aesop: I haven't seen the new one, but I did use it to make demos and shit.
How did you first get involved with Rhymesayers? I've been supporting that label since 2005, I think. Very impressed to see how it's grown over the years.
Aesop: Cool. When we were doing our thing in New York in the '90s, those guys were doing the same thing in Minneapolis. So when we started to travel and experience doing shows outside of the state, they were just all early friends of ours. There were some tours that combined us pretty early on. We've been friends since I was 21 or so and now I'm 38 so that's like 100 years or so...
[Laughs]
Aesop: Basically, I was on a New York label. It was great. We had a long run.
Are you talking about Def Jux?
Aesop: Yeah, Def Jux. So once that was over, I was just floating in the ether wondering what I should do. I knew these guys so that was an option. I decided not to do anything for a minute and just make a record. Once it was done, it seemed like an easy and natural progression.
When was Hail Mary Mallon officially formed?
Aesop: We've been touring together since like '05. It took us a long time to figure out we could make an album.
Rob Sonic: We always kicked the idea around. We didn't really make it official until 2009.
So are you Facebook official then?
Aesop: Yes, we updated our status.
Rob Sonic: It was updated in 2009. It hasn't changed, well, it's only changed a few times when we're really mad at each other.
Sometimes it's complicated?
Aesop: Sometimes we're full on and other times we're just seeing each other.
So clearly the second album is doing well. I listened to it front and back yesterday. It's solid and doesn't miss a beat. No pun intended. Tell me about the making of Bestiary.
Rob Sonic: You know it's weird. When people ask about it...we know each other so well.
[Hits voice recorder]
Rob Sonic: Oops, I just totally hit that. Get that out of my face!!
[Laughs] You had a moment. It's ok.
Rob Sonic: Yeah. We know each other so well it's very natural I would tend to say we do adhere to a structure but it's not a structure between us. It's a structure just in general rap writing. I don't know if everybody does it the same way. We don't sit down and have this formula type of thing we come to each with ideas and we are honest enough if we have bad ideas we will tell one another.
Aesop: You have to be careful. Sometimes you make the whole song and be 'hmmm.'
Like, I have something to tell you...this is going to hurt [laughs].
Rob Sonic: Maybe we should use a bit more structure. It might save us some time and heartache, but uh, we're not going to do that [laughs].
Aesop: A lot of it too is when we solo stuff, it's just consuming and we kind of overdo everything. This is our chance to not do that. Just make the first song that comes to our mind and whoever has beats ready, we'll use. Whatever is available.
Who is Jonathan?
Aesop: He was a magician. He's the Amazing Jonathan. I just heard an interview with him and he's going to die.
Rob Sonic: He's not doing too well. He was huge in the '80s.
Aesop: He's been big in Vegas for the last one or two decades, but he retired.
Rob Sonic: You know how that goes. I feel like magicians like David Copperfield, they somehow sustain these massive, lucrative careers without nobody knowing. I guess that's part of magic.
It reminds me of a Mitch Hedberg or something. Are you familiar with him?
Aesop: Oh yeah, my brother used love him.
He was so amazing and so underrated then he died, and everybody was like, 'Oh check out this guy.'
Aesop: I think Amazing Jonathan was just known for having a gigantic cocaine problem.
I think Mitch Hedberg did, too [laughs].
Aesop: He said he was going to die within the year.
That's not very amazing if you think about it.
Rob Sonic: He was something from our childhood and we both connected on it. Somebody called me him because I wear bandanas and so does he. I got my haircut recently, but normally it's fucking all over the place. I look like a carrot. Somebody called me that online one day.
They called you a carrot or Amazing Jonathan?
Amazing Jonathan.
[Laughs] Oh ok, good. That's better than getting called a carrot.
Rob Sonic: Carrot Top is a totally different guy.
Oh yeah, I actually do remember that. I saw you guys in Omaha at The Waiting Room a couple of years ago. Speaking of Omaha, the last time I saw you Aesop was with The Uncluded.
Aesop: Oh cool.
Are you going to do more with Kimya Dawson?
Aesop: I think so. We start a few things here and there.
She seems like a great lady.
Aesop: She's a wonderful lady.
I admire her. It takes so much guts to do what she does. I mean, both of you, it seems terrifying to me to get up on stage.
Rob Sonic: What she does, if I may, is something way deeper.
Well yeah, she puts it all out there.
Aesop: It's tough to write that shit because she'll write some shit that I would never go to and then she'll hand it to me and go, 'Now it's your turn [laughs].' I've been being cryptic my whole life on purpose to avoid that.
Oh we're going to talk about that. I was joking around and said that I was going to do the whole interview in a cryptic fashion so you would have no idea what I'm talking about.
Aesop: Give me a dose of my own medicine.
I feel it would take me a really long time, perhaps years, to dissect your albums.
Aesop: Fuck. At least that gives them some replay value, until ten years later when you realize like, 'He didn't actually say shit!' But I've already got your fucking money and I'm out.
Whatever, I get your shit from the label [laughs].
Aesop: [Laughs]
Hail Mary Mallon: The RAPstation Interview
One of the best perks about being a music journalist is the moment you meet an artist you've admired for years and they are as cool and down-to-earth as you'd imagined them to be. Granted, it can go completely the other way and someone whose music you've always loved can turn out to be an arrogant bastard, but fortunately, this was not the case with Aesop Rock or his partner-in-crime Rob Sonic. Billed as Hail Mary Mallon, the New York-bred duo is on tour in support of their sophomore effort, Bestiary, which was released on Rhymesayers Entertainment in November 2014. From album opener, "Jonathan" to closer "The Red List," the album is solid from front to back. Aesop produced ten of the tracks while Rob Sonic produced the remaining three. Their most recent video, "Whales," seemingly mocks mainstream rappers and the 'money' they are supposedly making while a classic boom-bap beat moves the track along. Aesop and Rob Sonic sat down with RAPstation to discuss everything from the making of Bestiary and Garage Band to Kimya Dawson and magic.
RAPstation (Kyle Eustice): I was reading about you a little bit and I like the idea of your tattoos that say, "Must Not Sleep, Must Warn Others." Why did those phrases resonate with you so much that you also include them in a few of your songs?
Aesop: That started in high school. A friend of mine used to say just joking around, I don't even think it's a quote from a movie, but it sounded like a sci-fi robot or something. It was just a joke between some friends of ours. When I started writing songs I adopted it as a mission statement pretty early on. That's what making records for me was at the time: warning others, writing everything I could about life and treating it like...
And not sleeping because you have so much work to do.
Aesop: Precisely. I don't know. I've never had an easy time sleeping ever in my life.
Do you still have problems with it?
Aesop: Yes, I do actually.
Do you drink coffee?
Aesop: I do.
That could be part of it.
Aesop: It could be, but I stopped drinking coffee post 4 p.m.
Me too! I've had to. Rob, tell me a little bit about your history. I've never met you and only interviewed you recently through email, but email interviews are never the same.
Same thing. We came up the same way. New York in the early '90s, underground, we're all connected in that way. I'm just a dude who likes to rap [laughs].
Oh so do you know Blockhead, as well?
Rob Sonic: Yeah, not as well as they know each other. They've been buddies for a long time.
Aesop: Yeah, we're like boyfriend-boyfriend.
[Laughs]
Rob Sonic: I'm the side piece.
Oh you're the third wheel whenever they get together?
Rob Sonic: Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
Aww I'm sorry. Blockhead is one of my favorite producers and to this day, None Shall Pass, is one of my favorite records. Great album.
Aesop: Thank you! I appreciate that.
Ok so I've listened to it at least a thousand times. What about you and Blockhead's aesthetic kind of gelled or coincided?
Aesop: We were friends before either of us started making beats. We got our samplers pretty much the exact same year. He got his a little bit before me. We were fans of taping shit off the radio constantly and we were always going out to show. Tony always wanted to make beats and he had been in scenarios before that where he would pull samples out and have somebody that actually makes beats use the sample so he had a better idea of how it's done than I did. We were hanging out together all the time.
It just made sense.
Aesop: Yeah, we didn't even have anyone to show us how to use the sampler. We just read the directions.
[Laughs] Those things seem like a nightmare to me. I'm still figuring out Garage Band.
Aesop: Garage Band is occasionally a nightmare, as well, though.
It's a little tricky, especially since I just got a new computer.
Aesop: A little wonky?
Rob Sonic: It's definitely a little more pro than when it first started out. I remember when it first started out and it was like, 'Whoa, what is this?'
It was like Fisher-Price.
Rob Sonic: Now it's like..wow.
Aesop: I haven't seen the new one, but I did use it to make demos and shit.
How did you first get involved with Rhymesayers? I've been supporting that label since 2005, I think. Very impressed to see how it's grown over the years.
Aesop: Cool. When we were doing our thing in New York in the '90s, those guys were doing the same thing in Minneapolis. So when we started to travel and experience doing shows outside of the state, they were just all early friends of ours. There were some tours that combined us pretty early on. We've been friends since I was 21 or so and now I'm 38 so that's like 100 years or so...
[Laughs]
Aesop: Basically, I was on a New York label. It was great. We had a long run.
Are you talking about Def Jux?
Aesop: Yeah, Def Jux. So once that was over, I was just floating in the ether wondering what I should do. I knew these guys so that was an option. I decided not to do anything for a minute and just make a record. Once it was done, it seemed like an easy and natural progression.
When was Hail Mary Mallon officially formed?
Aesop: We've been touring together since like '05. It took us a long time to figure out we could make an album.
Rob Sonic: We always kicked the idea around. We didn't really make it official until 2009.
So are you Facebook official then?
Aesop: Yes, we updated our status.
Rob Sonic: It was updated in 2009. It hasn't changed, well, it's only changed a few times when we're really mad at each other.
Sometimes it's complicated?
Aesop: Sometimes we're full on and other times we're just seeing each other.
So clearly the second album is doing well. I listened to it front and back yesterday. It's solid and doesn't miss a beat. No pun intended. Tell me about the making of Bestiary.
Rob Sonic: You know it's weird. When people ask about it...we know each other so well.
[Hits voice recorder]
Rob Sonic: Oops, I just totally hit that. Get that out of my face!!
[Laughs] You had a moment. It's ok.
Rob Sonic: Yeah. We know each other so well it's very natural I would tend to say we do adhere to a structure but it's not a structure between us. It's a structure just in general rap writing. I don't know if everybody does it the same way. We don't sit down and have this formula type of thing we come to each with ideas and we are honest enough if we have bad ideas we will tell one another.
Aesop: You have to be careful. Sometimes you make the whole song and be 'hmmm.'
Like, I have something to tell you...this is going to hurt [laughs].
Rob Sonic: Maybe we should use a bit more structure. It might save us some time and heartache, but uh, we're not going to do that [laughs].
Aesop: A lot of it too is when we solo stuff, it's just consuming and we kind of overdo everything. This is our chance to not do that. Just make the first song that comes to our mind and whoever has beats ready, we'll use. Whatever is available.
Who is Jonathan?
Aesop: He was a magician. He's the Amazing Jonathan. I just heard an interview with him and he's going to die.
Rob Sonic: He's not doing too well. He was huge in the '80s.
Aesop: He's been big in Vegas for the last one or two decades, but he retired.
Rob Sonic: You know how that goes. I feel like magicians like David Copperfield, they somehow sustain these massive, lucrative careers without nobody knowing. I guess that's part of magic.
It reminds me of a Mitch Hedberg or something. Are you familiar with him?
Aesop: Oh yeah, my brother used love him.
He was so amazing and so underrated then he died, and everybody was like, 'Oh check out this guy.'
Aesop: I think Amazing Jonathan was just known for having a gigantic cocaine problem.
I think Mitch Hedberg did, too [laughs].
Aesop: He said he was going to die within the year.
That's not very amazing if you think about it.
Rob Sonic: He was something from our childhood and we both connected on it. Somebody called me him because I wear bandanas and so does he. I got my haircut recently, but normally it's fucking all over the place. I look like a carrot. Somebody called me that online one day.
They called you a carrot or Amazing Jonathan?
Amazing Jonathan.
[Laughs] Oh ok, good. That's better than getting called a carrot.
Rob Sonic: Carrot Top is a totally different guy.
Oh yeah, I actually do remember that. I saw you guys in Omaha at The Waiting Room a couple of years ago. Speaking of Omaha, the last time I saw you Aesop was with The Uncluded.
Aesop: Oh cool.
Are you going to do more with Kimya Dawson?
Aesop: I think so. We start a few things here and there.
She seems like a great lady.
Aesop: She's a wonderful lady.
I admire her. It takes so much guts to do what she does. I mean, both of you, it seems terrifying to me to get up on stage.
Rob Sonic: What she does, if I may, is something way deeper.
Well yeah, she puts it all out there.
Aesop: It's tough to write that shit because she'll write some shit that I would never go to and then she'll hand it to me and go, 'Now it's your turn [laughs].' I've been being cryptic my whole life on purpose to avoid that.
Oh we're going to talk about that. I was joking around and said that I was going to do the whole interview in a cryptic fashion so you would have no idea what I'm talking about.
Aesop: Give me a dose of my own medicine.
I feel it would take me a really long time, perhaps years, to dissect your albums.
Aesop: Fuck. At least that gives them some replay value, until ten years later when you realize like, 'He didn't actually say shit!' But I've already got your fucking money and I'm out.
Whatever, I get your shit from the label [laughs].
Aesop: [Laughs]
